Does my son have to go to Kabouterhuis?

Not popular

This remark wil not make you popular: 'You must understand, my son sleeps super well, eats organic wholesome food, no processed food, eating out in the restaurant is once in every 2 months, no junk food, etc. It's hard to compare with other children, who have eye circles, who eat crackers or bread for breakfast and lunch.'

Most of the Dutch children eat bread for breakfast and lunch.
Do our children have eye-circles?

Most children sleep very well, eating in a restaurant is very special (once a year if there is a special occasion), junk food is not the daily food and most of the parents make fress food every day.

For us it is normal that a child aged 4 has a problem with sitting still, and crys (a short period) when parents leave. Other behaviors you describe would worry us, thinking there is a serious problem with the child (like ADHD, autism etc.). If you think there is a connection with his food, then maybe you should try to make a change in his foodprogram. Lack of vitamin D and/or B12 causes often behavioral problems.

Tsjor

Japan

'What makes this situation tough is trying to fit my son in the Dutch school system in which I believe it's like trying to fit yourself in a small hole in which you don't want to be in. But you are left with no choice because by Dutch law you have to go once you are that age.'
If this is the way you look at the schoolsystem in the netherlands, than you will have a problem as long as your son is living in this land. Is there a great difference with Japan?
The law that obliges children to go to school started in 1901, to protect children against working in fabrics. There is an ongoing discussion about the question if it is an obligation to go to school or to learn (that should allow hometeaching). You can find more about it on this website: https://www.thuisonderwijs.nl/. It is not an easy way to go. The possibility is limited.
My personal opinion is that letting a child go to school (trying to fit in the small hole in which you don't want to be) is the first step for a parent to realise that your child should find his own way in society and that you, being a parent, are not the only person for your child to help him find his/her own way. The child gets a life of his own, more and more out of the reach of the parents. I think it is good and necessary if you want your child to become an adult that can find his/her own way in society.
When I brougt my first child to school, I felt tears: do you (school) realize what a diamant you get? I was reluctant to leave him there. At the age of 4, it became obsvious that it was too much for him, so he started only in the morning. But after a couple of weeks he wanted to go the whole day and I saw him getting his own experiences and his own way of dealing with problems. I got confidence in my child: he could handle it. I supported my children if the problems were to big for them to handl, but I realized that they had to find there own way.
Now they're adults, living in different city's, having satisfying work, good relations and a life of there own. What more can you wish?

Tsjor

Not popular

Dear Tsjor,

I appreciate your input.

However, I am not trying to get popular with my remarks.
I am just simply stating my thoughts and observation.

"This remark wil not make you popular: 'You must understand, my son sleeps super well, eats organic wholesome food, no processed food, eating out in the restaurant is once in every 2 months, no junk food, etc. It's hard to compare with other children, who have eye circles, who eat crackers or bread for breakfast and lunch.'"

I am stating my observations with food intake. He also takes extra vitamin D and A in the form of cod liver oil during the winter season, and on a weekly basis, he eats organ meat with high Vitamin A on a daily basis.

I don't agree with you on this statement :
"Most children sleep very well, eating in a restaurant is very special (once a year if there is a special occasion), junk food is not the daily food and most of the parents make fress food every day."

This may be the definition of fresh food that may differ in your terms and my terms.
For example, I often hear the Dutch saying that they cooked fresh food for their families. When asking what it is, they say pasta. Whether pasta is nutritious or not depends on how you made the pasta. How did you prepare the pasta itself? Did you use the pre-made dried pasta? On special occasions, I do use pre-made dried pasta for the convenience but not for nutritious purpose.

This is simply one example. But preparation and cooking fresh food don't mean the child is getting enough nutrition.

Children with eye-circle are something I noticed with my observation. It doesn't mean all Dutch children have eye-circles. However, it also means that all children do not have eye circles.

The basis of my cooking and preparing food has derived from macrobiotic, and have been recently inspired by Weston Price.

I am very happy for you that you feel this: "Now they're adults, living in different city's, having satisfying work, good relations and life of there own. What more can you wish?"

The difference

Arguments that you're son eats only organic food is frowned upon by a lot of 'regular' adults. They believe you to not be a pragmatic thinking 'normal' adult but a someone who believes in fairytales and nonsens. Too idealistic to giveyou''re child a 'normal' upbringing.
As is your idea of non violent resistance. See the post of Limit, no pun intended, but children should be told 'no' and if they are frustrated and can't restrict themselves than you have to intervene. If they keep doing it you are at fault, you're parenting skills lack.
So you better not discuss parenting and methods of discipline.
In some circles, especially in care and education where people can be rather conservative and strict with backword ideas about uprbringing, you can be frowned upon as a weak and neglecting parent. Henceforth the observation that father did 'nothing'. Nothing being did not discipline son talking strict and mad at him and make him feel small, cry and apologize with a small voice.
Ignorant indeed.
Parents with more educated skills or arguments that can differ are found in the 'Vrije School'. But you may know that some people frown upon Antroposofie what is the idea behind these schools.
So, it depends who you are talking too. And don''t suggest your'e foodideas are superior, some will believe them to be hysterical.
And bread with cheese is a normal fooditem in the Netherlands among all groups, except vegans. If you reject this you are seen as on a high horse yourself where you can have very good reasons to consider bread not the first choice of food but you make yourself stand out of the rest. The overly idea in the Netherlands is: act normal. Having advanced ideas around food is seen as eccentric in most circles.
Of course there are parents that make these sort of food mistakes, pasta is fresh and nutricious. But it can be, it depends on the vegetables how and how many you put in there. And pasta can also be whole grain.
If you position yourself like this, people may react antagonistic towards you.

Food and behaviour

The relation between food and behaviour sounds logical but can be proven to be difficult to prove. Hence the discussions around it.

If ADHD is the idea of your son's behaviour we have a centre where kids can go to try if there are allergies that make them behave more impulsive and overly active.
They have good results although it is not accepted by a lot of people. But the research made the Lancet.

I admire this but only have a problem with the method. A kid in research needs to immediately restrict most foods and I myself find that traumatic and needlessly upsetting.
You can also work you re way back and take more fooditems, especially those who are known to be hyperallergenic, from the diet and restrict till the level that is needed, or you can maybe see advancement if you replace with hypo allergenic food.

But everything around food has an odour of speculation, trials and believe. It is not like math.

There are still people that don't believe in allergy or 'believe' in theories that are controversial to yours and want to impose them on you.

is Wonder

In your first message you said: "because we do not force our son to do things that he REALLY doesn't want.".

Really? I cann't believe this. Every child has to do things he doesn't like. Like giving a hand to parents while walking near a street with cars, don't be aggressive to other children, going te school, listen to teachers etc. etc.
I think most dutch schools are not very strict. In all countries around us schools are considerd more strict (germany, belgium, france), and less adaptive to children.

Your son is only four years old and there are already two schools he don't fit in. I think it is a good advise to let hem go to the kabouterhuis. This wil have smaller groups so he get's more attention.

Another option is paying yourself for a private school with small groups.

Do you as parents speak any Dutch already?

languae

Of course there is al lot more to say, but I don't write english goed enough to do this. Do you read any Dutch?

V@@s

De resultaten van Google translate zijn goed genoeg om te begrijpen wat er staat, kun je je tekst gewoon in het nederlands opstellen.

Vrije School

https://www.iaswece.org/asia/japan-4/

In Japan you have the 'Vrije School' these days. As an antagonist to the too rigid and resultdriven education of children. Or perceived as a more western style of educating, although in the 'west' it is not seen that way. In the West, theoretically, it is seen as a more nature and natural living oriented way of upbringing more concordant with the development of humankind in general and of small children.
Named Waldorf, Anthroposophical, Rudolf Steiner, or Steiner.
But tho be honest, Vrije Scholen in the Netherlands struggle to keep up with their mission since the gouvernement keeps regulating and demanding the endresults requiring testing even from toddlers. But at least you will find more parents with a worldview like yours. And staff.

be honest

Vrije scholen in the Netherlands are not free for children. Free only refer to the freedom of schools to teach children in their own way. They are for children very strict in the idea how children should develop.

If,

If the parents don’t sprak Dutch, there are more ways to improve the skills of the yuong boy.

Years ago we moved abroad. Child went to preschool. At home we followed the ‘ Dutch at home / English at school’- concept. Once child asked me when we went home. ( the Netherlands). Her classmates were lauching while they were watching a funky movie. She felt lonely. I skipped the concept and started to read books and let child watch tv- programs to improve the skills.
If you are not able to do those things, take contact with a Japanese student who speaks Dutch.

Children can get very tired or cranky when they can’t play with others. Speciale when those kids aren’t eager to play with him. Improve the vocabulaire So he at least can communicate.

Communication

Have hearing and sight of your son tested very well. Problems in this area are sometimes overlooked since for a child it is 'normal' but can lead to behavioural problems if a kid needs to improvise constantly with not enough input from what he hears or sees. You can start to have this done with the practice of your gp.
It is possible that your son already had the 4year visit to the consultationbureau/GGD in your area. But these days they are more in the emotional development of children and in 'safety' or childprotection than in the professional evalution of hearing and sight as they used to perform.
They did not discover the problems with seeing of my son and daughter, so I had to initiate my own search with them when they had problems in school.
Son was rather easy he just needed strong glasses. Daughter had also problems seeing depth, and only much later the opticien, not even the medical eyedoctor, found out that she had inner strabismus and found better solutions. It still could be improved and we are considering a visit to the nearby eyeclinic.
I can't stress the necessity to get ears and eyes tested enough. I have more examples in my circles where a lack of leaded to behavioural problems.

communication

'However, I am not trying to get popular with my remarks.
I am just simply stating my thoughts and observation.'
So am I. And I know I won't stand the judgement of AnneJ, with my comment. Acoording to Anne J I am 'regular'(=not good), conservative and strict with backword ideas.
Her advice is not to discuss your ideas in public, only to the group believers, that are superior tot the 'regular' people, people 'with more educated skills'.
Yet, you came to this forum, this forum is not exclusive for ons group of parents. so you will find 'regular' parents with there own ideas.
I find it important to tell you how other people can react on your remarks, because the reaction is important in your communication with other peolpe, like school, neighbours, docters, psychologists. So I want you to know honestly how (most of the) people will react on your statement.
It is not important if you are popular. But I also want to warn you: you are in a danger zone.
From the outside, peolpe will see this: a child with serious behavioral problems, a mother who has reasons (excuses) for her child's behavior, a mother with explicit but unproven ideas about education and food, the child visited already two schools, they see a father who gives the son water after him spitting on the teacher (perhaps they didn't hear what the father said to the son). Then the school gives an advice regarding the problems: kabouterhuis. Now it seems that the parents won't accept that advice.
All these things together might draw the attention of people that are concerned about the wellbeing of the child.
You don't want that attention, believe me, you don't want that attention.
My concern is: what can you do to stay out of special concerns about your child.
In order to do so, you will have to understand what brings up those concerns. And so you will have to understand what is happening in communication.
Lock yourself up in a small circle of 'believers' wouldn't be my advice.

Tsjor

Behavioral problems

A young child, living with his parents in a by the parents controlled situation finds two adults, who want to do everything in order to undersstand and support their child as best as they can.
Out of that restricted order, the child has to do with other peolpe, other children. Some bahvior that is well understood by the parents is seen as a problem bij people outside the restricted family-situation. Yet, the child will have to live also outside the family, so the problems should be taken serious as a signal, a question. An observation shuld be considerd not as a statement, but as a question: is what we see a problem or not?

The observations you've heard until now about your son are:
- making strange noices in the first days at school (do you recognize it, at home or in another situation, did it last for more days, did it have anything to do with language?)
- not being able to sit still (same questions);
- leaving the room and running through the school;
- not being able to follow lessons other than playing hours (who's decision was it to diminish the present hours, why was that decision taken, what problem would be resolved by this decision, is the problem resolved);
- getting angry when he has to go home (did he want to stay or didn't he want to go home);
- expressing his anger by spitting on a teacher (how is he expressing his anger in other situations).

Living with the child, you will have find a lot of ways of dealing with the child yourselve. But maybe you can take a step back and reflect on your own history with your son: what problems did you find and had to solve, specially the problems you've solved succesfully in your own house. Maybe these problems are recognizable with the problems you've heard so far from the teachers at school. Maybe there are more observations of problems you've solved but are additional to what school describes.

The first reaction of most of the parent will be: oh no, not my child, my child is beautiful, smart, handsom, joyfull, talented. He is not a problem. The teachers and the other kids are the problem.

I would advice you to take a moment of reflection. Trying to look at your child with other perpectives and other questions.

Tsjor
-

Next step

A important question is: does your son have a serious behavorial problem?

AnneJ suggests: ADHD, and her suggestions (including homeschooling) are based on that premise. But it is still a question. Is there a problem, is it ADHD or something else? Do you want to know this? Do you want to find it out by yourselve? Maybe you should start with your own docter.

The school thinks there is a serious beharioral problem. They advice het kabouterhuis. Is is helpfull to follow that advice? What can kabouterhuis mean for your child? Can they give observations, solutions? Is it tricky not to follow that advice? Is there a possibility that school will notice that you're not following the advice and so you're not handling according to the wellbeing of the child?

You seem to think there is no problem with the child, but there is an problem with the school and the other children. A change of school might be the solution. You are now considering an international school. Other people advice de Vrije school. Or a 'normal' school with special care for children who have to learn dutch. Within a couple of weeks you will have to decide.

Some remarks are about your way of educating your child. You make a connection between food and behavior. If there is a connection, I would be pleased to give you my recipe of pastasauce with a lot of fresh vegetables and advice bread with cheese for breakfast, because I don't recognise the behavioral problmens your child has. There are already two solutions mentioned: you give him already supplements for vitamin B and D'; AnneJ suggests an examination for possible allergies.
My advice would be to be more respectfull to other parents and there eating habbits, since there is no proven superior food pattern. The different visions come and go like the weather: bread is good, bread is wrong, milk is good, milk is wrong, cooking is good, raw food is good etc. Everybody tries to find the best they can considering there possibility's and experiences.

And there are remarks about how you want to correct your child. You've chosen a vision, that suites you well. But is it effective enough, considering the behavior of your child in other situations? You're choice is based on a theoretical point of view. The danger is, that your child will be subject to an experiment: does this view work?
Mu advice would be to observate and talk with other parents: how do they do it; build up your own opinion, without judging other people (They act like this, I wouldn't do that), read also critical points of view and never stop looking at your child, what is good for him.

Your son is too precious to experiment, yet, every parent has to experiment with their first child (and unfortunately, with the next child you find other problems and questions). Never being absolutely sure about the best way to handle is given with being a parent.

That's why I find this forum so important. I hope you'll find it too.

Tsjor

Doet me denken

Doet me denken aan dat Japanse gezin uit Brabant, met de ondervoede zielige kinderen. Blijf vooral in je eigen bubbel, met oogkleppen op! Arm kind.

Translate

En je mag het zelf door google translate heen halen.

Bijzonder

Vraag me af waarom TS überhaupt hier in NL is en blijft. Het schoolsysteem deugt niet, we voeden raar op en weten niet wat we onze kinderen zouden moeten voeren...
En omdat ze het Nederlands niet beheerst:

I wonder why TS would want to live here in the first place. Our schoolsystem is strange/outdated/not suited for exceptional children like hers. We don’t know how to raise children decently, and we don’t even have a clue as to what is the right food for them. I wouldn’t want to let my child grow up in a place like that...

Japan

I searched the internet last night to find some information about Japanese schools. Japanese children do not have to go to school until thay are 6. But most go to school from the age of 3. Chosing the right school even for 3 year olds is very important because it can have consequences for their future. Also the schools are very strict and children behave themselves.

So if your child would go to school in Japan he would also have to to behave and listen to his teacher. And i read a blog about a Dutech family living in Japan with a child attending a Japanese school. They have absolutely no respect for other cultures. The child and their parents have to everything the Japanese way. Other ways are wrong.

Pirata

Zo kan die wel weer. De enige overeenkomst tussen Amy en het gezin in Brabant is de nationaliteit. Dezelfde overeenkomst heb jij met het gezin in Ruinerwolde. Kan Amy daaruit concluderen dat het bij jou ook net zo gaat als in Ruinerwolde?

Tsjor

Koffiekop

Je kunt, zonder al te veel moeite, vermoeden dat Amy en haar man hier zijn voor werk of studie. Kennnismigranten heet dat. Hoogopgeleid, goed geïnformeerd etc.
Als je vreemdeling bent in een land onderga je steeds weer stadia van verbazing, afwijzing, accepteren, weer verbazing etc. Moet mijn kind een uniform aan naar school? Oke, vooruit dan. Straf omdat je in de pauze buiten gespeeld hebt en dan zwetend binnenkomt (tropisch land)? Hmmmm.
Iemand zei eens: als je een week in een land bent schrijf je een boek vol, na een maand een artikel en na een jaar houd je je mond, omdat je dan pas begint te begrijpen hoeveel je niet begrijpt.
De enige oplossing is: communiceren.

Tsjor

Nee tsjor

Allebei stronteigenwijs en geisoleerd. Ik hoor dat vaker over Japanners in NL. Als Amy zo doorgaat, dan krijgt ze ook jeugdzorg op haar nek.
Hoogopgeleid staat niet gelijk aan snugger.

En inderdaad

Ik ben even niet aardig en kort door de bocht.

Appearances

In the comments, especially by Tsjor, you can see very well how your child and you as parents can be perceived. School and care are focussed on appearances. And that is of course logical, they don't know you, and with your appearance you are sending of a message of who you are.
Unfortunately that can mean that every division of the main stream will stand out and be judged. There is a lot less tolerance of diversity than you would expect considering The Netherlands being a 'tolerant' nation. And the schoolsystem is moving towards a more rigid and resultdriven culture as the Dutch judge the Japanese, or Asian culture.
They focus on the 'faults' and prey on your 'weaknesses'. Read what Tsjor has mentioned about that around your child.
Other focusses of weakness can be: limited (financial) resources, expats who they expect to not know enough of the system to defend themselves. your clothing can set them on the wrong foot. They may assume you to be an asian low paid migrantworker, maybe even victim of human trafficking or exploited.
It can be advised to never go to meetings with school and care alone, take a man, preferrably your husband or other friends of the family. Show them you have a network of reliable friends and family that will help you. That is also a weakness they may perceive, just by not knowing your living arrangements.
Where you live can be a point of attention. The Dutch do have their prejudices. If you bought the home you are in, let them know. If you are in a 'posh' neighbourhood let them know. Dress smart, it matters.
But it is not only about appearances, the main thing is can you manouvre your child through the school- en caresystem. Can you cooperate with schools and care, can you accomplish succes, that is, are you able to find a school and enroll your son.
So that is the matter. While attenting to appearances towards school and care, gp, neighbours, every contact you may have, find the shortest and best route in school and care for your son. Not what appears to be good, only if your son does not suffer such a thing, but what really benefits your child in the short run and the long run.
And that can be difficult with a lot of 'if's' and maybe's, but that is the way to go.
And put it in writing, short and concrete, what your accpmplishments in this area really are, to give it to anyone that needs to be aware that you are in the lead and are able.

Two things I like to ad.
I very much agree with your method of communicating with your son, explaining the schoolsystem and asking what is in his mind.
In the end children want to conform, they want to belong, if only they knew how.
Maybe your son, as did mine, needs some more concrete explaining, patience with communication and a more quiet surrounding to prevent to much irratbility.
You have the key, you already made this adjustments in raising your son. That does not mean that school can understand what you mean. Some teachers do, but most don't unless they have a family or friends with the same sort of adjustmenthistories as seems to be the case with your son.
To me it sounds you are at least on the right track in the communication with your son, and that is very important.
They call it 'responsive' parenting. You would wish that schools could be more responsive too, but that is not always the case, although there are exceptions and if you find them you are very happy.
When my kids went to special education (I wanted them too very much) I finally found teachers (not all of them) that openly worked and corresponded with me in a knowledgeable way on my kids with autism. They had the responsivity with my kids I so hoped for but lacked mostly in elementary school. Or the teachers there had to hide their knowledge in favour of doing or being 'normal' and adapt.
Not every child can adapt easily, but you can help them to adapt, and some need some special attention, especcially extra focused explanation on their level, extra patience and real conversation both ways to know what is going on and how to help them move forward.

Nou, goed geïnformeerd...

Tsjor, als ze goed geïnformeerd zou zijn zou ze weten hoe het schoolsysteem hier werkt. Dat is toch zo ongeveer het eerste waar je je in verdiept als je met een kind emigreert lijkt me. En verder vind ik haar kijk op ons als Nederlanders en op onze cultuur nou ook niet echt getuigen van intelligentie en/if respect. Ze hóeft hier niet te wonen, als kennismigrant heeft ze ook andere opties. En het verbaast me enorm dat iemand die zo overtuigd is van eigen gelijk en zo neerkijkt op ons (systeem) daar haar kind aan bloot wil stellen.